Deptford Decades from the Deptford Ragged School Archives.

 

Residents of Deptford  tell their stories.

My thanks to Katharine Alston of the Deptford Ragged School Archives for her permission to publish this video.  Please visit the website  www.deptfordraggedschoolarchive.org.uk

Buttons of Deptford

The image is from http://www.thamesbuttons.com/page1.html
The button was found on the Thames foreshore by Mike 'Cuffs' Walker

Brian's Button

Hi, my name is Brian. I live in North Carolina in the United States. I was recently metal detecting on an and uninhabited Island on the coast called Cape Lookout. I found a button with the word Deptford on it. I’m assuming J Taylor was the Tailor who made it. I’ve been searching the web trying to find more information about this person and came upon your blog. I was wondering if anyone could help me find information on this person. How cool is it that this button made it all the way to North Carolina?

Cape Lookout 
View from Lighthouse 

 

Our Shop part 2

Here's a story involving our shop which might interest you, and might even jog some memories

I must have been about 9 or 10 years old when this happened.

Opposite Wilson street, on the other side of New Cross Road, there was a fried fish shop, I guess you might call it a fish and chip shop today, but we just called it, 'the fish shop'. I can't remember it's name. One day a horse and cart was parked outside the fish shop when a steam engine went past. I don't mean a train, but rather a road-based steam engine. If my memory is correct, anyone delivering using a horse and cart had to make sure that someone was holding the horse's reins whilst the delivery was taking place, I think this was the law at the time. So usually there were at least two people with a horse and cart. The steam engine terrified the horse, and the horse was unattended, or the person with it was not holding the reins, or they were and the horse got away from them, I'm afraid I don't know exactly why, but the horse bolted, and headed down Wilson Street.

It ended up by crashing through our shop door and putting it's front hooves on the counter. It had stopped because the drawbars for the cart had become wedged in the doorway. I didn't see all this myself, as I was at school. When I got home the doors were seriously damaged, and there were two hoof marks on the counter of the shop. These hoof marks stayed there until the shop was destroyed by a bomb in the early years of the war. Thanks goodness there were no customers in the shop at the time! I remember that the doors had to be repaired, and this was a little awkward as they were slightly rounded, being on the corner of the building. I don't know who got the horse out of the shop, or whether anyone paid for the repairs.

Our Shop part 1

 I was born Rosemary Elizabeth Manning on the 6^th of December 1926 in Number 8 Wilson Street, which is just off the New Cross Road. My mum and dad were David and Florence Manning, and they ran a corner shop at that address. I had 4 older sisters.The shop was at the end of Wilson Street – which his now Wilshaw Street – on a corner. Diagonally opposite was a rag and bone or scrap yard owned by a family called Read. One of the brothers that ran this business was in fact my brother-in-law. There was also a factory very nearby, at the end of the road, but I can't remember its name or what was done there.

The shop originally belonged to my grandad, my mum's father. My mum and dad, my next oldest sister and I lived with him there until he decided to give the shop up at the age of 83. He went to live with my Aunty Mary, mum's older sister in Forest Hill, and left mum (Florence) the shop. We sold a lot of things in our shop, groceries, haberdashery, and some hardware. We opened early, at 6am, as the local housewives needed to buy things to make their husband's lunch and this sort of thing was done on a daily basis. It was common for people to come in several times a day, as people didn't keep much in their homes. There were no fridges and there wasn't much space in the houses. There were two big jars on the counter, one of pickled eggs and one of mustard pickles and customers would bring a cup for so many pickled onions or for two penny's worth of mustard pickles (they brought their own cups), a single egg, or something else to make a packed lunch with. Our yard was too small for an Anderson shelter, 

So when the bombing started we had to go to a public shelter in the next street. We had to sit upright on benches that ran along each wall. It was difficult to sleep. By the time we'd walked home after the All Clear (usually at 6am) there was already a queue outside the shop. At that stage there was just my mum and me so one of us would go to bed for an hour whilst the other served, then we'd change over. That way we got some sleep before the siren went again and sent us back down into the shelter. I was often left to hold the fort if my mum had to go out. I served on my own from the age of 10 onwards. I loved playing drafts and always had a board set up on the counter and customers would make a move and then another would come in and make the next move and so forth. We sold 7 and 14 pound bags of coal. Again people didn't buy all that much at once. There was nowhere to keep it, and as the downstairs yard of most buildings was communal, it would likely disappear if you left it there. If people wanted a 14 pound sack they had to take it themselves; we had a sack truck that they could borrow if they needed it. But if they ordered 7 pound bags, it was often me that delivered them. My dad made me a miniature sack truck with an iron loop to hold the bags of coal and I delivered the coal from about 8 years old onwards. Most houses were two stories high 'two up and two down', with one family living on each floor and a lean-to kitchen, yard and outside toilet which was shared by both families. So I often had to carry the coal upstairs as well. The coal was delivered into our shed in the back yard via a shoot, 

and it was my job to watch the men carry the hundredweight sacks in and tip them in the shoot: I had to count them in.

 There was a large scale in the shed with a scoop on one end, you put the coal in the scoop and the weight - 7 or 14 pounds - on the other end. Then when the coal was weighed the scoop pivoted so that you could tip the coal into a sac. They used to weigh us kids in this scale! Thursday afternoons were early closing and we did the bagging up that afternoon. Nearly everything was sold loose. The women from the factory would come in during their breaks to buy a single cigarette for a ha'penny, or a bar of chocolate for tuppence - the chocolate was a 2 ounce bar of Cadbury's Milk chocolate. 

The eggs came in big boxes from Denmark and my mum had a shelf with a glass panel on the front, so with the wall at the back and glass in front it was like a topless box and the eggs were placed in there loose. An egg cost three farthings. How much the Danes were paid for them I shudder to think, when they had to send them so far. I always marvelled that they didn't break. Biscuits came in 7lb tins 

and were sold loose. Washing soda came in hundredweight sacks and had to be bagged up. We also weighed up the soda, and dried fruit that came in large sacks. Butter and margarine were delivered in large blocks and had to be cut to size as was required. For the fruit we had thick blue paper bags that stood square. We made cones out of newspaper for the soda. When I got home from school I would fill the bags and my grandad and later my mum would weigh them. An inspector used to come to check that the scales were working properly. We never knew when he was coming, but he came every two or three weeks. We also bagged up things like sugar and dried pulses. My mum cooked whole hams and bacon in a large galvanised pot on the 'Kitchener' in our kitchen.

These were then all cut by hand and sold a slice at a time. She prided herself on the fact that when she sliced the meat you couldn't see where the blade had started or finished, the cut was perfectly smooth. The knife had a blade which was at least 12 inches long and between about ¼ and ½ an inch wide. We also made our own vinegar in the shop. It came 'neat' and we had to add water to make it palatable. It was kept in a red and white striped china barrel with a tap, and people would bring a bottle and we would measure out what they wanted. My mum used to say that you needed eyes in the back of your head when you were serving, as often there were several customers in the shop and it was a small room. She told me that when grandad first left she made a mistake that she never repeated. The women all used to whitewash the steps outside of their houses, many did this every day. The step whitewash (or 'coal wash') was under a shelf on the floor in the shop near the door. At many terraced houses, it was scrubbed clean each day and reddened, or whitened  with pipe-clay or lime donkey stone – an arduous and time-consuming task (and particularly unpleasant on cold days), but often seen as an essential chore. 

One day a customer wanted some and there was none left on the shelf so she went out the back to get some more and someone stole a jar of sweets from the counter. The shop was crowded with half a dozen kids, and they'd gone by the time she'd got back. 

 Next time, school, my dad's allotment and Beam's Breezy Babes dance troop!

Peppercorn Bros Furniture

This post shows and example of a dresser made by Peppercorn BROS limited of Deptford Broadway. 

Brookmill Road Conservation Area (BRCA Society) online talk

 

Dear Olddeptfordhistory.com 

I thought I’d let you know about the Brookmill Road Conservation Area (BRCA Society) online talk coming up in January in which you, or your subscribers, may be interested. Entitled “18th Century Artisans’ Houses in and around Deptford”, the talk will be given by Peter Guillery, architectural historian and Editor of the Survey of London. The talk will be followed by the BRCA Society’s AGM.

Any spreading of the word would be much appreciated.

To register, please go to:

https://brcasocietyagm.eventbrite.co.uk

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year,

Julia

Julia Rowntree

Brookmill Road Conservation Area Society

www.brookmillroadconservationarea.org.uk

THE UNITED FRIENDS PUBLIC HOUSE

           United Friends, 25 Wellington Street, Deptford - Licensee T C Entecott

The address is listed as 25 Wellington Street in 1882 and earlier, prior to street renumbering, and as Flagon Row in 1847. The address is at 74 McMillan Street by 1944, again due to street renaming. A listing of London historical public houses, Taverns, Inns, Beer Houses and Hotels in Deptford, Kent in the parishes of St Pauls or St Nicholas - now partially in London. 

A Post Card from Eileen

 Hello everyone 

 I though you might be interested in this old postcard as it mentions Southwark Manufacturing at 16 Evelyn Street, Deptford which I believe was gone from there by 1940.

 It also mentions some names: Joan who lived somewhere past Heybridge Avenue – the sender, nothing known of her; Miss Cottrell – nothing known of her.  It is addressed to Betty who I believe is my husband’s paternal grandmother.  She was Elizabeth Redding, born 1888, and I believe at the time she would have been living in New Cross/Newington but I’m not sure.  It must have been sent before December 1914 as that is when her father died.   I find it unusual that this Joan sent the postcard to what appears to have been Betty’s workplace rather than to her home.

Betty’s father was John Matthew Redding born c.1836 who was on Deptford Council from 1900-1905.

Yours,

Eileen O'Leary

Sydney, Australia

HELP FOR ANDREW. CAN ANYONE IDENTIFY THE DEPTFORD LOCATION IN THIS PHOTO PLEASE.

 Hi,

This is a photo of my maternal grandfather, Douglas Jack Green, taking part in a parade somewhere in Deptford! My grandparents lived in Evelyn Street until about 1933, when they moved to Sidcup.

My grandfather is the scout on the far left of the front row playing - we think - an euphonium. I know he was very involved with the scout movement.

My grandmother’s full name was Ivy Gladys May Green, nee Kingston. I think she worked at the Fry’s Chocolate factory nearby.

Andrew Stephen

Help for Kellie

Hi there,

Im not sure if anyone will be able to help me but I stumbled on this blog about the history of Deptford.  My grandmother was born in 1908 and her family came from Deptford. She was born there and at some point came to Australia with her father and the woman she believed was her mother.  Unbeknownst to her her real mother was back in Deptford with her brother and went on to have a family with a new husband later on.  Its a long twisted tale Im not sure how it all went down, but would love to know if you have any information on any McAlister/Turner or Lee family from the Deptford area.  I am in Australia and dont know much about Deptford itself.

Many thanks

Kellie

Letter from John C. Buckley, 57 Florence Road, New Cross, Deptford, [England], to William Lloyd Garrison, July 3, [18]67

Hi,

I live on Florence Road (historically in Deptford New Town) and have been trying to find out about the history of our short street and am waiting to hear back from the council's local studies team. 

You may already have this, but I did find a letter which was written in 57 Florence Road in 1867 by an American soldier called John C. Buckley to abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison who was coming to England which I've attached here. 

I wanted to get in touch to check if any readers know anything about Florence Road and its history at all? A quick search returned no results but I thought I'd try my luck and contact you as well!

Thank you so much, Liz

FOUL PLAY AT 17 WATERGATE STREET DEPTFORD

GEORGE LEADBEATER (38) , Feloniously wounding Emily Lewis with intent to murder her. Second Count, with intent to do her grievous bodily harm.

MR. GRAHAM CAMPBELL Prosecuted.

EMILY LEWIS . I live at 17, Watergate St, Deptford—I am single and a laundress—I have known the prisoner between four and five years by living with him as his wife—I ceased to live with him the week before Whitsun on account of his brutality to me he turned me out—I went to live at Mrs. Cromartie's, No. 2, Riley Street and from there to 17, Water-gate Street—I saw the prisoner on October 18th at about a quarter to six; he asked me if I should like to go to a play—we went to the Star Music Hall,

The Star Music Hall, Bermondsey.

and from there to Peckham; we went to a public house and had two glasses of ale; he threw one over me, and I walked out and took the tram to Deptford—I went home and came out again—I met the prisoner in Watergate Street—he drew out an open knife and said, "You and me for it before twelve o'clock to-night"—that is the knife (Produced)—I said, "Before you do that think of your boys down home; never mind me, go and see to them"—he quietened down, and I asked him for a halfpenny, which he gave me—I went to the Harp of Erin 

Harp of Erin

and got a glass of ale—he came in and landed me a blow on the face—he accused me of being with Mr. Cromartie—we were turned out of the public house—it was 11.30—Mr. Cromartie saw me home—I shut myself in the back room—three minutes later the prisoner came in; he had no boots on and a lightedmatch in one hand and the open knife in the other—he said he meant doing for me and stabbed me on my forehead three times—I tried to protect myself and got a stab in my neck and the back of my ear—I fell down on my left side—I said, "Oh, George, you have killed me, get me a drop of brandy;" he said, "My girl, I will," and jumped out at the window for it—I crawled upstairs to Mrs. Iiford's room—when he brought the brandy he had a cut on his hand—I was taken to Princes Street Police Station

Prince St Police Station

and from there to the infirmary—I remained there till last Tuesday.

The Prisoner. I had been out drinking with my brother-in-law; I was drunk; all I know is we went out for a walk; I do not know anything about beer being thrown over her; after we went to Peckham I do not know what happened; I did not recollect anything till Sunday morning.

By the COURT. The prisoner unloads bricks from barges—there is not a quieter man when he is sober.

JOHN THOMAS KIDDES . I am landlord of the Harp of Erin, King Street , Deptford—Emily Lewis was in my house on Saturday, October 18th about 11 p.m.—she had a glass of ale—the prisoner rushed into the bar and started using bad language, so I had him put out—he was perfectly sober—he called her filthy names and said she had been deceiving him.

The Prisoner. If he says I was sober he is telling a falsehood; I do not even recollect seeing him.

JOHN WILLIAM AMOS . I am a labourer of 17, Watergate Street Deptford—at 11.20 on October 18th I saw the prisoner in my back room—I asked him what business he had there; he said, "All right, Jack"—he came out at the door with a lighted match—he had a knife in his hand or a dagger—he shut it up and put it in his pocket—he rushed out of the passage—that made me suspicious, and I burst open the door of the back room—I saw Emily Lewis, who was a stranger to me, lying face downwards in a pool of blood—I went for help, and when I came back she had crawled upstairs under my adopted son's bed—Mrs. Cromartie and myself found her there, and put her on the door-step till the constable took her.

By the COURT. I know the prisoner by sight—I have seen him in the place three or four times—I believe he is some relation of Mr. Cromartie, but what I cannot say—I believe he was the worse for liquor, but I cannot say he was drunk.

EMMA CROMARTIE . I am the wife of George Cromartie, of 17, Watergate  Street, Deptford—at the end of August, Emily Lewis came to live at my house—on October 18th, at about 11.45, I found her in the back room and brought her down into my room—I saw the prisoner there; he brought a cup with some brandy or whisky in it—I took it out of his hand and said, "Leave my room, you brute"—he went away, and I did not see him any more until he was at Princess Street Station—I helped the constable lead Emily Lewis to the station, where her wounds were stitched up.

WILLIAM WIGGINS . I am assistant medical superintendent of Greenwich Infirmary

GREENWICH Infirmary 

Emily Lewis was brought to me on October 19th, at 2.30 a.m.; she was very faint from loss of blood—I found a wound 2 1/2 inches long over her right eye, and eight punctured wounds in her neck, chiefly in the back—they varied in depth from 1 inch to 2 1/2 inches; one of them reachedas far as the spinal column; the wound over her eye reached down to the scalp—there was a cut on her left arm and left hand, a contusion over her left eye and a cut on her lip—the wounds were such as might be caused by the knife produced—she remained at the infirmary till November 4th—dodo of the wounds of themselves would be fatal, but they were dangerous if either of the wounds in the neck had severed the jugular vein or one of the main arteries she would have lived but a few minutes—the position of the wounds was dangerous.

FRANK BEVIS (Police Sergeant R.) On October 19th, at 1 a.m., I saw the prisoner at 29, Charles Street (now Comet PlaceI said, "I am a police sergeant and shall arrest you for attempting to murder by stabbing Emily Lewis on head, neck, and arms at 17, Watergate Street at ten o'clock to-night"—he said, "I caught her with George Cromartie; I meant her murder; I wish the knife was longer so that it would have put her out; I wish I had the chance to do it now"—I produced the knife, and he said, "That is the knife I did it with"—I took him to the station—he was afterwards charged, when he said, "Very good, this is what a man will do when he is mad wild"—on being taken from the dock he said, "I meant to kill Cromartie as well"—when I arrested him he appeared to be perfectly sober.

Prisoner's defence. "I did not understand the charge when it was read over to me. I did not recollect anything that night. I plead for mercy. I do not know what I did it for. I had no cause for it.

GUILTY on the Second Count only. Three years' penal servitude.

Report from the Old Bailey Records

St Nicholas Church Deptford 1966.

Original new photograph sent to me by an interested subscriber.

Deptford Water Works Chimney Demolition 1966

I was sent this old photo showing Deptford Waterworks chimney demolition. Can anyone tell me what location the photo was taken from. Thanks.

Rank Flower Mill 1966.

Mumford’s Flour Mills were founded in 1790, built beside Deptford Creek. The mills were supplied by small craft entering the Creek from the Thames. Mumford’s Mills flourished throughout the 19th century. It should be noted that 11 Mills were recorded in the Domesday Book (1086), all standing on the River Ravensbourne. Because Mumford’s Mill was not erected until 1790, it is not one of those 11 ancient mills. A new large mill was erected 1897, designed by Sir Aston Webb and Ingress Bell. There are large inscriptions at the top of the building showing ‘1790, 1897, Mumford’s Greenwich Flour Mills’ and ’S P Mumford & Co’. In the 1930s the building was acquired by the Rank Group. Since then the building has stood empty for several decades. The Rank Group was founded by Joseph Rank in 1875 as a flour milling business and is still in existence today, now known as Rank Hovis McDougal (RHM). Incidentally, the equally famous J Arthur Rank film business was also started by a member of the same family.

My thanks to "Know Your London"for historic information

Help for Louise

Hi guys it’s a long shot but I’m looking for my grandad I have a very limited amount I know about him. His name is Sidney William Nicholls he lived at 23 Hyde street deptford in 1963&64 he lived with his dad who I believe is Sidney Nicholls (He was a lorry driver) & younger brother. I believe he would now be around 80 He was in to motorbikes and tattoos other than that I don’t know much 🙁

Deptford Babies Hospital. Different view looking West towards the High St.

Leighs Story

Hi,

I was born in Deptford in 1957. Number 9 (I think) Walnut House, Edward Street. I have very vague memories of going to Edward St nursery school.

This next photo was taken by my brother, I have vivid memories of looking at him with his box brownie camera and Walnut house behind him. From this view, obviously taken on my birthday you can see they playground in front of Walnut house.
My family name was Morris, my first name was pretty unusual at the time, being Leigh. Perhaps someone remembers my family. My dad Joe was one of identical twins married to my mum, Joy.  I had an older brother Steve. I remember we used to go to the local baths (not swimming) but for taking a bath and doing your weekly wash, we obviously didn’t have a bathroom in our flat. It may have been in Evelyn Street. I remember a sweet shop just under some railway arches? and in another street nearby either a pet shop or a shop that had a minah bird in a cage outside that would talk to passers by. In those days your local doctor was a family one and would come and pay home visits. Ours was a Dr Conway, does anyone remember him ? On one occasion he was visiting to see my father (who was a steel-erector and had fallen through a roof damaging his back) when he saw that I was having a severe asthma attack. We had no home telephones in those days, so he had to run to the local call box to dial for an ambulance. One of many I’m afraid. I spent more time in Lewisham hospital than in school! The air pollution was pretty bad in those days often with thick “pea souper” smog. I do remember we also had a smallpox outbreak in London and everyone had to be vaccinated. I attach a copy of a photo of myself (aged around) 3Yrs I guess immediately taken after that. I am the first one. We don’t look too impressed do we ?

The Fountain, 36 Deptford Broadway, Deptford SE8

Thomas Randall and Sons in the back yard of the Old Fountain

How things change 

Deptford Green

The Peppercorn Brothers Deptford Broadway

Not quite sure where on the Broadway they were. Can anyone help with identifying 

their location Please. 

 This Pewter teapot was sold by them

Trying to find out about the Mantles & Gitshams from Mill Street

Dear Andy,

I have put a post up on the Carrington post, but didn't get any replies so hoping you could put a separate post for me to assist with my search for info. I have written the following that you could cut and paste into the post if that makes things easier'

I am a great granddaughter of Maria Mantle, whose parents Uriah and Sarah Gitsham, ran the Freemason's Arms, a pretty down and out alehouse in Mill St. The alehouse was eventually closed and buildings demolished and replaced by Carrington House.

In trying to trace the movements of the family after leaving the Mill St address, I haven't been able to find information. Maria eventually emigrated to Melbourne Australia but shipping records not clear in determining her arrival date. She gave birth to my grandfather in December 1899 out of wedlock. His birth certificate does not record a father's name. 

Maria's mother, Sarah Gitsham seems to have been a bit of a tough old chook, remarrying a Daniel Hone and having more children post Uriah. She also seems to have visited Melbourne at least once.

If anyone can help me out on my quest to learn more about the Gitshams and Mantles of the former Mill St I would greatly appreciate any information that you can provide.  

Thanks for putting this up on your website.

Kind regards

Simone

Photo on the Deptford Fund Hospital for Sick Babies

Babies Hospital located at 36, 38 Albury Street. Also could have been at number 34 as well.

Jeff Memories of Carrington House

HI Andy?,

 I was born in the old St. Alfages hospital in Greenwich in 1950.Apparently I was not thriving as I should as my Mum was terrified of the ward sister which caused problems with feeding me. My Dad decided to kidnap us both and we came home to the family residence at 39 St. Donatts Road, New Cross. I went to school at St. James's in the road of the same name, New Cross and later went to Addey and Stanhope grammar school (known by us as Study and No Hope) In New Cross Road Deptford. I well remember Carrington House and the forboding presence it cast over Brookmill Road and the surrounding area. When I was 15, I had a girlfriend who had a horse. She was so devoted to it that she turned up on it one day ....for a date at the pictures at the local fleapit (Deptfor Odeon). I told her that the place was pretty bad but didn't think they would let her and her horse in. As I recall a few of the local girls kept horses in the stables in Mechanics Passage where the totters kept theirs.

   In the 1070s, I started a long career driving buses and often drove the 47 past Carrington House and in the mid 1980s the 53 past the end of Brookmill Road. Looking back we seemed to enjoy our simple lifestyle and seemed a lot healthier for it.

  Thank you for all the lovely memories contained in your blog.

Jeff

EXCELL FOUNDRY Co. New Cross Road

Hello All

I wonder if you are able to help me.

I recently purchased a cast iron name plate. On the back is written…

Manufactured by

The Excell Foundry Co

489a New Cross Road

London SE 14

I have been unable to find any information on this foundry. Does anyone have any information on it?

Regards

Steve Frampton

Trading in Number Plates since 1975

www.frampers.com

Deptford Ragged School Archive Heritage Open Day

Hi All

My name is Katharine and I am currently running (on a part-time, voluntary basis) the Deptford Ragged School Archive which is based in The Bear Church/Shaftesbury Christian Centre, Frankham St, Deptford. 

Since Jan 2019 I and a group of volunteers have been meeting once a month to catalogue and document the archive, making it publicly available, recording the collection on our Deptford Ragged School Archive page of eHive.  One day we hope to list everything we’ve got on there.

We’re finding out some great stories about the history of the Deptford Ragged School dating back to 1844, the year it was started.

I’m actually getting in touch to invite you all to the Deptford Ragged School Open Day on  Saturday 21st Sept, 13:30-17:00 Shaftesbury Christian Centre, Frankham St, Deptford

Look forward to seeing you all

Katherine 

Help for Ralph Deptford Football Club Bronze Athletic

Hi there, 

I am trying to gather more information on the former Deptford Football Club Bronze Athletic who played there home games on the ground at the end of Yeoman Street off of Plough Road, Deptford. They seem to have become defunct about the  time of the First World War. 

The reason for all this is the action photo I have included. When I tried to get more information on Twitter three separate people suggested the photo could be of Bronze Athletic and one suggested the chimneys in the photo could be the old Deptford Power Station. If it is the DPS the photo could have been taken close by to Bronze Street which may be how the club got their name. I’ll include an accompanying team photo just in case. 

Any help would be so gratefully received. 

Kind regards. 

Ralph Sheridan.